Western Show Alliance

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Our Response

Cal-ILA excerpt 

Original WSA emails

Recently there was a request to offer ones' thoughts about the Western Show Alliance... so I offered them. In discussion with others, I know others also had concerns/questions that I did not present. Some took the time to write their own emails. I encourage you to email your local llama groups either with concerns, thoughts or praise on this subject.

I found that I hit a sore spot with the person who responded to my email. It was not meant to offend, merely to present my thoughts. Reaction was made to specific words I used. One quote was, "Yes, we value your opinion but it should  be an educated opinion and not based on what you hear".. Where I did not wish to offend the readers of my email, the person that responded to me DID wish to offend. I am not posting that email I received, in response, as that is not presented in an open forum. On 8/19/11 I  goggled Western Show Alliance llama. The first listing was from Cal-ILA stating 'There is a proposal to form a Western Show Alliance to reduce the number of llama shows produced in the west.'

What are the gray areas that have been presented-

1. Many of us heard about the Western Show Alliance at the California State Fair. It was presented as a group. It was said that shows in California should be decreased.

2. The August 2011 Newsletter had a large article about the Western Show Alliance. There was every indication that this was the view point of Cal-ILA, not an individual.

3. The same Newsletter asked for peoples opinions. One should not ask for an opinion unless they really WANT AN OPINION.

4.Western Show Alliance. Name for a group or individual show?

Here was my email about the Western Show Alliance. Farther down, you will find emails that have been sent out about it's formation & the direction it is following.

 

Our email dated  8/16/11

Western Show Alliance

The questions have been asked. Individuals are talking to individuals. It has become a topic of conversation at llama gatherings. The Western Alliance. Another proposed new group to dictate how the business of llamas should be handled. Here are some thoughts for your consideration. Hopefully, it will inspire more dialogue on the topic.

Llama Show Attendance-

We have been showing for over seven years now, We have participated in small County Fairs to the Quadruple Judge Virginia Christensen Show. We have seen many changes in the shows over this time. Yes, the participation is on the down swing but we do not believe that the costs involved are the major culprit. Other possible reasons, consider the following-

The llama industry, at one time, was big money. Those who owned llamas had a substantial investment in llamas. Few people owned llamas. Now llamas have become considerably more affordable to the masses. More consideration should be geared to attract the person who owns one or two llamas for pleasure

On the same lines, the llama shows have seen lower numbers as the big breeders are not seen at shows. Hinterland Ranch was a major presence at shows, bringing (it seemed like) dozens of llamas to the show. Sherry Halligan and Wayne Rankin were a large presence in the Northern California shows. A few breeders from Southern California were also a much bigger presence at the shows, Add all of these people together and the current shows have lost fifty percent of the entries at the shows today.

Though no one would like to admit it, POLITICS have been very detrimental to the llama community. There is petty bickering on a local level. On a much larger scale, the split between ALSA and ILR shows has crushed the llama industry Nationwide. It is so sad that adults can act worse then children. Our kids would never be allowed to act the way these adults have. No talking to come up with a resolution, no compromise. Just people that won't play well with others. Now the States are divided. Make your choice– ILR Shows or ALSA Shows. Whole sections of the country will offer one show but not the other. They have taken the whole, once a strong llama community, and divided it. Show attendance are reduced & ALSA Nationals & ILR Gathering attendance is lower than anything we saw 5+ years ago. Membership costs have doubled for the owners (yearly ALSA & ILR dues) and Divisions can not be filled.

Llama Shows from years past use to have a flare to them. The Hobo Show had a flare to it. The props & the Keystone cops kept participants amused. The “fun events” offered gave every llama the chance to be a winner. People would take about it & look forward it for the following year. The State Fair had a nice sit down dinner or ice cream social. Participants were allowed to get away from grooming, competition etc. and just relax.

 

Reduction to the number of shows

1. Feb LANA Hobo – Turlock, CA

2. Feb LASC Riverside County Fair – Indio, CA

3. Mar LASC March Magic – Lancaster, CA

4. May Llamas & More Show – Fallon, NV

5. May CAL-ILA Grass Valley – Grass Valley, CA

6. Jun LASC San Diego County Fair – Del Mar, CA

7. Jun LANA Round-Up – Turlock, CA

8. Jul CAL-ILA California State Fair – Sacramento, CA

9. Aug CAL-ILA Solano County Fair – Vallejo, CA

10. Aug CAL-ILA Hot August Nights Performance Show – Turlock, CA

11. Oct Llamas of the Wine Country Harvest Fair – Santa Rosa, CA

There are 11 Shows in the California/ Nevada area. We may not need more shows, but we definitely do not need less. Different shows have their own purpose.

Shows at the State & County Fairs are necessary for the future survival of the llama industry. It is a shame that more people do not realize it. There is no better place for the public to meet llamas, often for the first time. Owners can promote the attributes of these wonderful animals while dispelling the negative myths. We think many future llama owners discovered llamas at a Fair. If the participants put as much effort into socializing with the public … well… anyway, there would be a lot more new llama owners out there.

Northern VS Southern California. The distance to a show IS a big deal. There is a large grouping of llama people in Southern California as well as a large group in Northern California. Any reduction of shows in a geographical area will not necessarily mean that those people will participate more in the other geographical location. Distance, cost of gas & cost for health certificates are a major consideration for smaller operations.

Fallon Venue

It is confusing. We (Fallen Oak) have never shown at Fallon. The way the recent emails portray the Fallon Venue, it sounds like it is an undiscovered paradise. Great stalls, great buildings and kitchen facilities & a great central location. ??? Nearly every year people talk about their trip to Fallon. And what is said… It is windy, the climate is either extremely hot or cold, the open stall area and facility is below par. Praises about camping has not been heard & exactly who is it centrally located to? The vast majority of the participants need to pay a veterinarian for a health check on their llamas.

Conclusion

Is another llama organization really needed. Just another group that will need to be funded by who?

An opinion was asked for. It may not be the one that wanted to be heard. Thanks for your consideration

Fallen Oak Llamas

August 2011

Llamas and More Association (LAMA) in Nevada has thrown in the towel. Working with Dan and

Marilyn Milton, LAMA is promoting a Western Show Cooperative that will sponsor just a few

shows for owners in California, Nevada and Southern Oregon. The goal is to produce shows where

exhibitors can earn double or triple points with both ALSA and ILR. The idea is that fewer shows

will mean increased attendance, which will mean more points. Having a double or triple point

show will mean having the opportunity to earn more points with less travel, expense and

preparation time throughout the show season. To keep expenses down, low-cost venues such as

Fallon and Turlock would replace the more expensive fairgrounds.

Now come the hard choices; deciding which shows are no longer viable? Is there any need to keep

shows like the California State Fair, which has never been about earning ALSA points? How about

the Harvest Fair in Santa Rosa? Or the Johnny-come-lately Hot August Nights Performance Show

at Lora’s ranch in Turlock?

There are too many shows today for the number of active participants. Efforts to advertize the

shows, personal emails inviting folks to participate, and getting the word out has done little to

increase attendance. The CAL-ILA Board members recognize that something has to be done.

There are many positive aspects to joining with the other western organizations to form a Show Coop.

CAL-ILA will be able to focus our efforts on our chartered mission, educating our members

and the general public. The organization can still participate at the shows, but sponsoring an

information booth at the show rather than producing the event may be more in line with what the

organization should be promoting.

The downside is that we have worked hard to develop and sponsor some unique and fun shows for

our members and the camelid community. Giving up a hard-won show can be hard. Working

together as a Co-op means compromise, no one is going to get exactly what they want.

 

Western Show Alliance

CAL-ILA Correspondence

The following are copies of the email messages between Marilyn Milton and Barney

McClung in response to the original flyer Mary Adams blasted to the CAL-ILA

membership.

The original proposal is shown first below, with responses following

6-21-2001

Subject: Proposing a cooperative effort to create a new venue to improve the future of llama

shows

The Churchill County Fairgrounds in Fallon, NV, has been the location of the Llamas and More Show for

the past several years. It is an ideal location because of its reasonable accessibility and low fee

schedule. There is excellent stalling, extensive camping space and a great activities building with

kitchen and nice rest rooms. The arena is covered.

Due to the failing economy making it difficult to attend numerous shows, it is proposed that the above

organizations join together to host a multi dual-sanctioned show similar to the Celebration Classic which

is held in Oklahoma City in April, only this show will include performance classes and additional fun

events. This type of show requires only two judges for halter and performance and a third if fiber classes are

offered. The judges must be certified by both ALSA and ILR. This is how the show is organized:

HALTER

Exhibitors show in front of both judges at the same time. Class placings are awarded and ribbons given

as they would be for an Open Show – gold and silver. This gives exhibitors the opportunity to see how

they place within the whole group. It also saves the purchase of two complete sets of class ribbons.

At this point, the score keepers divide the exhibitors into ALSA gold and silver and ILR gold and silver for

class points and then assign them to their respective Championship rounds, where they are awarded

ribbons and awards specific to their show divisions.

Results of the ALSA shows are reported to ALSA for points. ALSA points can also be reported to ILR for

credit in their Universal Awards Program.

Results of the ILR shows are reported to ILR for the ILR-Show Division and the Universal Awards

program.

PERFORMANCE

Exhibitors show in front of both judges at the same time – one time only. Class placings are awarded and

ribbons given as they would be in an Open Show – gold and silver.

At this point the score keepers divide the exhibitors into ALSA gold and silver and ILR gold and silver for

points and Championship awards.

PROPOSED SCHEDULE

Saturday AM-PM Walking Fiber/Fleece On

Saturday AM Halter Classes

Saturday PM Fun Events

Saturday PM Dinner

Sunday AM Halter

Sunday PM Performance *

• If the sign up for Performance classes is heavy, some Performance classes may be moved to

Saturday.

GENERAL RULES

Each organization will have one member on the planning committee.

There will be a lottery to choose the judges: the names of each organization will be put into a hat. The

first name to be drawn will choose the first halter judge. The second name to be drawn will choose the

second halter judge, the third name to be drawn will choose the fiber judge. Those that did not get drawn

will have first choice of judges for the following year.

COSTS

Costs are shared equally by the number of organizations participating. Costs include:

• Facility

Building @ $180 per day (no charge for set up/tear down) = $360

Grass areas for camping and RV parking @$50 per day (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) = $150

Stalls (16$B!G(BX16$B!G(B – panels – dirt floor – covered roof) @$15 for first day, $7 for consecutive days

Electrical (depends on level of use) generally runs under $100

• Judges

Transportation costs vary due to location of origin. A single car rental will be involved. The Host

Hotel has always complemented the judges rooms in the past.

• Ribbons/Awards

Dan and Marilyn Milton will order, pick up and deliver ribbons and awards from their vendors in order

to save shipping costs.

Committee members from each organization will decide on final class scheduling, fun events, vendors

and show personnel. John Trauth will be the Show Superintendent , Marilyn Milton will be Show

Secretary, Dan Milton will be the Announcer and Judy Johnson will be the Score Keeper and Recorder.

Although it will be optional as to what show divisions exhibitors wish to show in, the fee will be the same.

Halter Class fee = $40 (for a six way show)

Performance Class fee = $80 for all three divisions (one class free). If only two divisions are entered the

fee will be $75.

Youth Class fee = $30 for all three divisions (one class free). If only two divisions are entered the fee will

be $25.

Showmanship Class fee = $20 for adults, $10 for youth.

Walking Fiber/Fleece On fee = $20

Stalling = $30 for Friday/Saturday, $10 for Sunday

Self-Penning = $5 per llama attending

RV = $25 for the week-end (hook-ups available)

Dry Camping = $10 for the week-end

All profits will be divided equally among the participating organizations.

PURPOSE

The purpose of this show is to provide a venue whereby people can come together for a show that

presents multiple opportunities to gain awards and points for our llamas and have a great time while

keeping expenses for travel, lodging, show fees and stalling fees at or below costs for attending a single

show.

This show is financially a very low risk for the organizations involved. It will take a minimum of personnel

to complete the event. It will give us the opportunity to work together to unify the industry and secure a

future for showing our llamas

We hope that you will be willing as BOD members of your respective organizations to participate in this

cooperative effort to preserve showing and good will within the llama industry and that you will encourage

your members to participate in every way that they can.

Members of the committee will work together to find further incentives to encourage participation and

ensure the success and enjoyment that is our unified goal.

The suggested name for this new committee is the Western Cooperative Show Group or the Western

Cooperative Show Alliance. The show could be called The Western Cooperative Show or Western Show

Co-op. Please take this proposal under consideration and let us know if you are willing to participate in this

combined effort by July 15th.

Sincerely,

Marilyn and Dan Milton

On behalf of the Llamas and More Association

Responses Follow

From: Barney McClung [mailto:barney@napallama.com]

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:04 PM

To: marilynmilton@charter.net

Cc: 'lora crawford'; llamaspn@castles.com; 'Mary Adams'; 'taahoaol.com'; 'Ellen Goldsmith'; 'Yvonne

Sumner'

Subject: Western Show Alliance

Dan & Marilyn,

Mary Adams shared with the CAL-ILA Board the proposal you have for combining efforts to host a dual

ALSA/ILR show. I am NOT responding as a CAL-ILA Board Member, we have not had the opportunity to

discuss your proposal, but I did have some comments I wanted to personally share and some questions.

I was supportive of previous efforts by CAL-ILA to partner with other groups to cosponsor shows here in

the West. It certainly makes sense. Most of the shows share the same volunteers and show

management and we usually see the same exhibitors. The roadblocks seem to have been; who controls

the money? and if we combined shows, are there fewer opportunities to exhibit and for the public to

have contact with llamas and alpacas in a show setting?

Current ALSA Shows Scheduled for 2011 California & Nevada (No ILR shows found)

1. Feb LANA Hobo – Turlock, CA

2. Feb LASC Riverside County Fair – Indio, CA

3. Mar LASC March Magic – Lancaster, CA

4. May Llamas & More Show – Fallon, NV

5. May CAL-ILA Grass Valley – Grass Valley, CA

6. Jun LASC San Diego County Fair – Del Mar, CA

7. Jun LANA Round Up – Turlock, CA

8. Jul CAL-ILA California State Fair – Sacramento, CA

9. Aug CAL-ILA Solano County Fair – Vallejo, CA

10. Aug CAL-ILA Hot August Nights Performance Show – Turlock, CA

11. Oct Llamas of the Wine Country Harvest Fair – Santa Rosa, CA

(see the attached map)

Fig. 1 Western Map

When I have done research for the low attendance at the California State Fair, most exhibitors say that

they exhibit there for the Rosettes and the marketing value associated with a State Fair Champion or

Blue Ribbon Winner. Folks not showing usually cite the heat or the crowds as a reason not to come

(even though llamas and alpacas are exhibited back east in high temps and stifling humidity.) The

County Fairs seem to attract the folks looking to capitalize on the marketing aspects of County Fair

Champion as well. The other shows seem to have tried to provide a relatively inexpensive venue for

llama and alpaca exhibitors interested in earning points as most of these are double or triple shows.

What I've heard is that it is too expensive to exhibit at all of the shows. I remember the CAL-ILA Board

adding shows to address our members concerns that there were not enough opportunities to earn

ALSA points without traveling across the country. But now many of those members are no longer

showing and at many of the shows exhibitors can earn double or triple points. Maybe the problem is we

have too many shows. Frankly, with the big money investors having fled from the llama and alpaca

markets, there are a limited number of owners interested in showing their animals. I would estimate

that we have about 20 owners (and probably less) in California, Nevada and Southern Oregon interested

in showing their llamas and alpacas. That is a small population to support five separate organizations

with 11 or more shows a year.

It looks like consolidation is coming whether we like it or not. I tend to like to drive change rather than

sit back and let change drive my actions. I think getting the various organizations to cooperate and cosponsor

a show is a good first step towards a new future for the camelid community.

I do have some questions that the flyer didnt address in enough detail for me.

Questions

1. Which show or shows are being replaced?

2. What are the proposed dates?

3. Who will be handling the money? Llamas & More Association? The Miltons? The Western

Cooperative Show Alliance????

4. How will the show be marketed?

5. What are the costs for the show personnel?

Thanks,

Barney McClung

The Wool & Flax Llama Farm

CAL-ILA Board Member

From: Marilyn Milton

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:32 PM

To: 'Barney McClung'

Subject: RE: Western Show Alliance

Hi Barney,

Thanks for your reply. You brought up many interesting points. I have limit time right this second so

just let me answer your questions and I will get back to you on the other things soon.

Replacing the shows would be up to the individual organizations who sponsor them. Llamas and more

are replacing their show and handing it over to the new $B!H(Bgroup$B!I(B. The confirmed date is always the first

weekend in May. Who handles the money is up to the committee. Llamas and More Assoc. currently

has some funds that they will be donating over to this show effort. The show will be marketed through

each group to their membership and there will be several email blasts to as many folks as we can each

within a reasonable area. This will be strictly a volunteer effort. No paid show personnel except for the

judges. We all need to learn to share the effort.

Must go. I will get back to you. Thanks again!

Marilyn

From: Marilyn Milton

Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 12:27 PM

To: 'Barney McClung'

Subject: RE: Western Show Alliance

Hi Barney,

Sorry I had to rush the other day and didnt get to all of your comments.

About having fewer venues for the public to have contact with the llamas. I would rather have fewer

events that really show how interesting and how much fun llamas are that have a lot of events where

there are one or two llamas in a class. Cal-ILA does a good job of promoting its show to the public but

we need to have more fun days, fund raisers, parades and ranch hosted fiber and activity based

events in order to promote to local folks who have acreage and dont know what to do with it.

Yes, we have too many shows that are not successful but cost just as much to attend. The more that

you can offer folks at one event, the better, whether it is points, ribbons, marketing opportunities,

service or just having a good time with the llamas. ALSA offers double points at Regionals and Triple at

Nationals but, alas, there are no Regional shows in the Western Region due to politics. There are no ILR

shows in the Southwest Region because organizations have chosen sides. This has caused a great

division in the industry in more ways than one. It has cut in half the size of the shows and attendance is

such that it is hard to achieve ROMs and Halter Championships due to poor attendance. Living in the

Northwest Region, I have to show in Nevada or California to qualify for Nationals because there are no

ALSA shows in my area due to the same syndrome and many of those have no full divisions – pathetic

when it only requires 6. We have tried to reintroduce ALSA to the Pacific Northwest. The exhibitors are

willing but ALSA keeps shooting us down. Dont even get me started on the Regional issues!

So, in a nut shell, because of economic times and general apathy and complacency among many llama

owners, I am proposing a new way to get together and show, promote, and have fun with our llamas,

and do it in a manner that we can share ideas and responsibility and at the same time foster a spirit of

fellowship and good will and hope for a productive future for our llamas. There is no other location that

I know of that we can afford to put on a show at so little cost and by sharing that financial burden it

becomes a no risk effort.

Who handles the money? Who cares, as long as it is done properly. I will be happy to handle the

finances – I should anyway if I am the show secretary and all the entries come my way. One of the

reasons I am presenting the proposal in this manner is that certain things are written in stone and

certain things will be up to the committee. The groups are invited to participate but if they cannot agree

to the basics of this proposal, then they should opt out. Keeping things simple always works best. Too

much input and nothing is ever agreed upon.

I can tell you that the Celebration Classic is successful (291 llamas in 2010 and 220 in 2011) and it is just

halter with four wool divisions. The Gathering had 300 llamas in attendance made up of mostly midwesterners.

So why cant this effort be successful for the Western Region?

It takes commitment from BODs and members alike to make these things happen. As I pointed out

before, because of the structure of the show it will take very little personnel and the costs consist of

facility, judges and awards only.

I hope that you will support this effort and promote it within and outside of your organization. When

we told everyone at the Fallon Show about this proposal everyone seemed very excited about it.

The Llamas and More Association is closing its doors and donating the remainder of its treasury to

support this effort.

Marilyn

-------------

Marilyn,

I have forwarded your comments to the CAL-ILA BOD for discussion. We have a short meeting

tomorrow night, but we are trying to limit discussion to the General Membership Meeting in Vacaville

on July 9th (just around the corner!) so I dont know if we will have much of a chance to discuss it.

Personally, I think the West can only support 3$B!>(B4 full shows a year. The tough part is having folks let

go of their show so the Western Show Alliance can work. I dont think there are any easy answers to

persuade everyone to jump on board.

CAL-ILA was chartered to educate llama owners and the public. Shows are just an extension of that

mission. Somehow over the years CAL-ILA has become known just for our shows (Grass Valley in the

spring, Solano County Fair mid summer, State Fair (was late summer, but now the end of July!), and the

Hot August Nights Show). But we also have educational clinics almost every month! Those tend to be

overlooked and may not get the attention needed by the Board because we are working on the shows.

We have been trying to change the perception, but its not changing very quickly.

I think that if CAL-ILA stops hosting shows it might help to assure that a Western Show Alliance would be

successful. It would free up resources that could be better used for education activities of interest to

the llama community. I think CAL-ILA could be a sponsoring member of the Alliance, but the specific

details of how that would look will have to be worked out. But giving up an activity that CAL-ILA has

been identified with may prove to be difficult.

I think the industry has evolved and its time for supporting organizations to evolve as well. When I first

became involved in the llama community llama shows were more of a social event with a few core

competitors really interested in the points. Most of us were more interested in the chance to visit with

each other. The economy has weeded out those of us who would pay entry fees just to hob nob with

other llama owners. The serious competitors are now the majority and the shows need to evolve to

meet their needs.

I think a dedicated Western Show Alliance will better meet the needs of the show community. Fewer

shows, more points, better ribbons and banners, awards, and combined ALSA/ILR events will provide

the competitive rewarding experience at a cost thats affordable. CAL-ILA, LANA, LOWC (Llamas of the

Wine Country), LASC and the PLTA can each focus on the local educational and fun events while

supporting the Western Show Alliance.

I applaud your efforts and think your ideas make real sense. However, I think there is some real political

equity invested by each of the separate groups that will need to be worked through.

Barney McClung

Editors Note: As you can see from the above messages, I support the idea of

forming a show cooperative. But, I still have some questions and I believe that

achieving a working group will be difficult because there are some many interests

involve. Just because it may be hard and take some time is no reason not to pursue

working together.

Now that you have read the original proposal, read Barneys questions and Marilyns

answers, please share your opinion with the board members. We need your input.

Thanks!

July 26, 2011

 

 


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